Simply ‘Ellen’s’ term remains a mystery, there seems to be no-you to definitely entitled Ellen or Helen, except perhaps a keen ‘Eleanor’ towards Joanna’s front side (Eleanor regarding Aquitaine, mother out-of Joanna’s father King John)
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The key function of it workout is to test, by a peek at genealogist’s feedback on the subject and also by asking specific understood unique present, to decide who had been the caretaker regarding Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Are she Joanna, wife away from Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Produced circa.1188, passed away. March 1237) otherwise try she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch regarding Rhos, domme of Llywelyn, produced circa. 1168, died??
I’ll follow this with a vacation study with the it is possible to lifestyle of an effective ded Susanna, given out to King Henry 111 since the a hostage in the 1228 together with her custody becoming supplied in order to Sir Nicholas Verdun with his spouse Clementia.
The new viewpoints of the Genealogists that i possess studied are only you to, opinions, in addition they disagree significantly. No chosen evidence can be found in either case, but have to say that the majority hold to own Gwladus is the newest child of Joanna. This is especially valid of your genealogists of the descendants from the fresh De Braose family unit members, nonetheless ily is associated with the Welsh and you can English regal house!
The list following off Llywelyn’s numerous legitimate and you can illegitimate youngsters looks as essentially recognized by the the genealogists that we have learned except for distinctions over if or not #9 extremely lived. This new dates of delivery given below also are disputed from the particular:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, born circa.1199, died 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, created circa.1206, passed away 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1206? passed away circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1208? died circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince regarding Wales, born circa 1208 (1211?) (second thoughts regarding it day, find later), passed away twenty five February 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1209 passed away 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1210, died 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – produced circa 1210, you can twin so you’re able to Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, otherwise ‘Susanna’, produced circa 1214? Died 1259?
There’s far disagreement along the title of mothers from these types of children. There clearly was standard agreement that the only specific pupils of Llywelyn’s age Prince of Wales and Ellen (Helen) just who partnered (1) John the brand new Scot, child of earl regarding Chester and you may (2) Robert de- Quincy. Even in the event opinion was split over the moms and dads out of Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and you will Susanna, the vast majority of genealogists I’ve studied lean toward their mother being Joanna.
This is partially with the supposed schedules regarding beginning just like the well because their marriages ser Usbekisk kvinner to different marcher lords which, you to supposes, will have desired to line-up their homes compared to that of its neighbor, the latest Prince of North Wales along with his wife, the new king away from England’s daughter. It is believed that such lords of March would not have seen much attract otherwise governmental inspiration within the marrying regarding the sons into illegitimate daughters away from a Welsh prince having an effective Welsh lady.
From what labels of them college students, if by Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise anyone else, they certainly were the titled shortly after members of Llywelyn’s household members:
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Llywelyn’s mommy is actually titled ‘ed ‘Susanna’ away from Gwynedd. Their paternal grandma is actually called ‘Gwladus’. Mom and dad out of his granny Susanna, have been ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and ‘Angharad’ off Flint and you can one another their names received so you can Llywelyn’s children. That it Susanna together with got a sis named ‘Gwenllian’, a comparable identity as the Llywelyn’s great grandmother.